Discussion:
The final secret
(too old to reply)
William Blake Jr.
2005-10-28 15:28:19 UTC
Permalink
The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.

The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns,
and simple-minded worldviews - whether of Protestant nature or of
"realist" nature - the likes of which have been inexplicably and
overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are
simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple
outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly
glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation,
or else one's view be dishonest - and, as a result, barbaric and
malicious.

Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was
based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were
part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and
their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for

the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much
true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for
psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other
paths.

The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness
with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality
beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual
is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the
enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by
the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for
one's fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to
the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as

well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations
where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous
lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself

for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice
either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to
simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state

of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower
states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in
order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what

is in the interests of humanity - the interests that Buddhism believes
to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and
ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist
illumination are functions of man's presence in the Buddhist truth -
the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is - which is seen to be man's
true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of

joy that hath no bounds - joy that is as such absolute as being
absolute fulfilment of that which is man's true Buddha nature.

It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or

another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man's truth
and man's actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The

scientific path, that claims man's true nature as being of intellect
whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in
one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of

knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to
build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of
scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of
cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must
present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in
the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen
to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man's true

nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of
discovery and the quest to continue - what is believed to be man's true

nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical
study - motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and
examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and

then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an
explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and
replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is
likewise seen to be a reflection of man's true nature as the scientist
and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy
but addition to man's quest for knowledge as such.

In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen
to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce
the man that Communism saw as being man's true nature: That of service
to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was
advertised as man's greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism
believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably
to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common
good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic
ideologies, that believe man's true nature to be that of warrior,
advertise man's greatest joy as that of winning in battle - and that of

course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism,

man's true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose

natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or
business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to
trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised
here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man's
"rational self-interest" - and the exchange of which goods in the
market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is
claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all.
This economic concept of man - as a being seeking to maximize utility -

is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a
spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational
being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable
process; as a warrior; or anything similar.

The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have
everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff

to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck

and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of
what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all

these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level
described by the psychologist than they do on others - in the same way
as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies.

The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human
difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than
for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than
they do for the next.

The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for
service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to
Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as
being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong
things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which
finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff
traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in
which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by

that faith brought to it and into it completely.

Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man's nature as that of
the lover and finds man's highest joy in passionate love and manifests
in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output.
This path unites man's spiritual nature - as being of spirit that lives

by intuition and inspiration; with man's natural nature - as sexual
being; with man's emotional nature - as being who seeks to share with
and be close to another person; with man's rational nature - as being
that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find,
having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings' "The final secret will

still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is
woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man - all of
which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more
natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at
different times in his life - we are left at the consummation of
spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that
combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these

are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who
combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of
them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and
delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself - a
masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness - and out of

the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings,
photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show
them the paradise that she knows and that she is.

So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of
consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia.

I hope you find the truth that works for you.

Ilya Shambat.
Ike
2005-10-29 04:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Blake Jr.
The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.
The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns,
and simple-minded worldviews - whether of Protestant nature or of
"realist" nature - the likes of which have been inexplicably and
overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are
simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple
outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly
glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation,
or else one's view be dishonest - and, as a result, barbaric and
malicious.
Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was
based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were
part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and
their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for
the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much
true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for
psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other
paths.
The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness
with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality
beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual
is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the
enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by
the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for
one's fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to
the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as
well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations
where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous
lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself
for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice
either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to
simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state
of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower
states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in
order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what
is in the interests of humanity - the interests that Buddhism believes
to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and
ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist
illumination are functions of man's presence in the Buddhist truth -
the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is - which is seen to be man's
true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of
joy that hath no bounds - joy that is as such absolute as being
absolute fulfilment of that which is man's true Buddha nature.
It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or
another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man's truth
and man's actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The
scientific path, that claims man's true nature as being of intellect
whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in
one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of
knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to
build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of
scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of
cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must
present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in
the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen
to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man's true
nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of
discovery and the quest to continue - what is believed to be man's true
nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical
study - motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and
examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and
then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an
explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and
replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is
likewise seen to be a reflection of man's true nature as the scientist
and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy
but addition to man's quest for knowledge as such.
In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen
to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce
the man that Communism saw as being man's true nature: That of service
to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was
advertised as man's greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism
believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably
to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common
good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic
ideologies, that believe man's true nature to be that of warrior,
advertise man's greatest joy as that of winning in battle - and that of
course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism,
man's true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose
natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or
business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to
trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised
here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man's
"rational self-interest" - and the exchange of which goods in the
market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is
claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all.
This economic concept of man - as a being seeking to maximize utility -
is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a
spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational
being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable
process; as a warrior; or anything similar.
The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have
everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff
to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck
and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of
what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all
these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level
described by the psychologist than they do on others - in the same way
as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies.
The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human
difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than
for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than
they do for the next.
The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for
service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to
Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as
being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong
things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which
finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff
traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in
which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by
that faith brought to it and into it completely.
Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man's nature as that of
the lover and finds man's highest joy in passionate love and manifests
in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output.
This path unites man's spiritual nature - as being of spirit that lives
by intuition and inspiration; with man's natural nature - as sexual
being; with man's emotional nature - as being who seeks to share with
and be close to another person; with man's rational nature - as being
that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find,
having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings' "The final secret will
still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is
woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man - all of
which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more
natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at
different times in his life - we are left at the consummation of
spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that
combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these
are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who
combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of
them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and
delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself - a
masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness - and out of
the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings,
photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show
them the paradise that she knows and that she is.
So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of
consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia.
I hope you find the truth that works for you.
Ilya Shambat.
And in a nutshell?
William Blake Jr.
2005-10-29 23:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ike
Post by William Blake Jr.
The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.
The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns,
and simple-minded worldviews - whether of Protestant nature or of
"realist" nature - the likes of which have been inexplicably and
overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are
simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple
outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly
glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation,
or else one's view be dishonest - and, as a result, barbaric and
malicious.
Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was
based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were
part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and
their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for
the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much
true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for
psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other
paths.
The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness
with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality
beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual
is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the
enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by
the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for
one's fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to
the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as
well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations
where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous
lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself
for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice
either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to
simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state
of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower
states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in
order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what
is in the interests of humanity - the interests that Buddhism believes
to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and
ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist
illumination are functions of man's presence in the Buddhist truth -
the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is - which is seen to be man's
true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of
joy that hath no bounds - joy that is as such absolute as being
absolute fulfilment of that which is man's true Buddha nature.
It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or
another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man's truth
and man's actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The
scientific path, that claims man's true nature as being of intellect
whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in
one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of
knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to
build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of
scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of
cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must
present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in
the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen
to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man's true
nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of
discovery and the quest to continue - what is believed to be man's true
nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical
study - motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and
examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and
then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an
explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and
replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is
likewise seen to be a reflection of man's true nature as the scientist
and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy
but addition to man's quest for knowledge as such.
In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen
to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce
the man that Communism saw as being man's true nature: That of service
to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was
advertised as man's greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism
believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably
to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common
good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic
ideologies, that believe man's true nature to be that of warrior,
advertise man's greatest joy as that of winning in battle - and that of
course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism,
man's true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose
natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or
business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to
trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised
here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man's
"rational self-interest" - and the exchange of which goods in the
market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is
claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all.
This economic concept of man - as a being seeking to maximize utility -
is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a
spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational
being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable
process; as a warrior; or anything similar.
The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have
everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff
to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck
and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of
what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all
these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level
described by the psychologist than they do on others - in the same way
as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies.
The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human
difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than
for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than
they do for the next.
The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for
service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to
Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as
being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong
things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which
finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff
traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in
which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by
that faith brought to it and into it completely.
Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man's nature as that of
the lover and finds man's highest joy in passionate love and manifests
in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output.
This path unites man's spiritual nature - as being of spirit that lives
by intuition and inspiration; with man's natural nature - as sexual
being; with man's emotional nature - as being who seeks to share with
and be close to another person; with man's rational nature - as being
that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find,
having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings' "The final secret will
still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is
woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man - all of
which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more
natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at
different times in his life - we are left at the consummation of
spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that
combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these
are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who
combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of
them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and
delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself - a
masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness - and out of
the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings,
photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show
them the paradise that she knows and that she is.
So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of
consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia.
I hope you find the truth that works for you.
Ilya Shambat.
And in a nutshell?
The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.
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